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Posted on 03/02/19 1:13:06 PM
DavidMac
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Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
The text below is not my own. I cannot vouch for it's authenticity. But any which way it's a superb photograph.

Aerial view of Edinburgh taken in 1920. In order to get dazzling shots like this, the photographer would hang out of the aircraft with his leg tied to the seat with a rope.



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Posted on 03/02/19 5:18:39 PM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
Aaaaah that's the kind of sky/backdrop that an air-to-air photographer dreams of; I love those backlit clouds. Having said that the printer has obviously had a glorious time doging and burning this to enhance the lighting. That's not a criticism - it's a compliment. Of course there was no Cmd/Ctrl-Z if you got it wrong; you went right back to the beginning and started again.

The aircraft looks to be a classic Sopwith design, probably a Pup, Snipe or a Camel, and the lens seems to be a fairly wide angle given the angle of view.

I would take issue with the caption where it says the photographer would hang out of the aircraft. Yes, he would be tied in but 'hanging out' even a t low airspeeds, would buffet both him and the camera resulting in camera shake. More likely he would just have had a door or window removed or, if he was using an open cockpit camera plane (most likely), he would have been behind the windscreen as much as possible. Given the low a.s.a. rating of the film in those days that would mean a rather slow shutter speed and lots of camera shake.

I don't recognise this as one of his but the late, great, legendary Charles E. Brown used a Zeiss Palmos plate camera for this kind of work when starting out as a press photographer in 1913/14 for the Daily Mirror. He used this until he retired in the 60s. He didn't carry too many spare plates as they were too cumbersome to change in the air. Believe me, I have tried to shoot 5x4 in an open cockpit and it's not funny.

The Palmos was modified to have rigid sides rather than leather bellows as this would prevent the bellows collapsing should they get hit with an 80 knot breeze in the air.

Charles would fly around for ages, almost exhausting the aircrafts' fuel, until he would find the perfect backdrop, press the shutter and return to base ... just one single photograph for the entire shoot. He was notorious for this when flying with the RAF but they almost always got a spectacular shot rather than a bunch of mediocre shots.

Thanks for letting me see it. Makes me feel that I want to be back up there again; although now I would want to have a modern medium format digital camera in my hand. I can only imagine what could be the potential results.








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Posted on 04/02/19 10:42:08 AM
DavidMac
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
Assuming it's original printing and not digitally re-worked it's also, as you say, a lovely bit of darkroom work.

I started my professional life as a darkroom printer. Assessing and printing someone else's negative to their requirements was an incredible basic training. You really learned the results of good and bad exposure and how to deliberately exploit it when needed. Plus a lot of fun with cardboard dodgers and crumpled cellophane diffusers on wire sticks, burning by rubbing the print between the hands while developing to speed up the process locally, tilting negative and baseboard to correct parallels (and slim over large hips), ......... and all the other tricks of the trade.

I have done very, very little filming from aircraft but lots of it from helicopters and I agree with you about buffeting and tying. On helicopters we usually removed one door and then tied ourselves into the seat sideways facing out. But, as for leaning, if anything you leaned back to keep the camera inside - you didn't stick it out in the open. The only real exception was shooting directly downwards when you used a chopper equipped with external stretcher carriers to which you were strapped face down.

Later this was all done with gyro stabilised cameras enclosed in a windproof sphere hung under the chopper remotely operated with a video monitor from inside the chopper. That, of course, is disappearing now in favour of drones. It's not only easier, it's a tiny fraction of the flying costs of a chopper.

Long, long time now since I have done any of that.

This is the most stable platform I ever shot from (in the very late sixties) - a huge twin rotor Sikorsky - private property of the Sultan of Brunei. We were shooting in Brunei for Shell Petroleum (a film about their offshore rigs) and they had a leasing arrangement with the Sultan for it. We had to pay the pilots ourselves. They were British ex RAF. Brunei was a dry Moslem state but Shell had a special enclosed compound where spirits were available inside the compound for Shell employees only. We smuggled a case of whisky out and paid them with that!

You can see our rigging and my harness was pretty basic rope work ...........




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Posted on 04/02/19 12:39:36 PM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
DavidMac wrote:

This is the most stable platform I ever shot from (in the very late sixties) - a huge twin rotor Sikorsky
You can see our rigging and my harness was pretty basic rope work ...........




All that lovely helicopter vibration being transmitted directly through the tripod legs.

I just hope that you were a talented boy scout and got your knots well sorted out

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Posted on 04/02/19 1:01:09 PM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
... but I did think that there was a lack of an interesting background ...





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Posted on 04/02/19 1:20:55 PM
lwc
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
Fascinating discussion for this layman to read, most interesting indeed. Keep it going.

A question comes to mind: Would a drone be used today for much of this type of aerial
photography?

Also, I see a lot of banner designs in your photos...




Posted on 04/02/19 2:21:19 PM
DavidMac
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
GKB wrote:

All that lovely helicopter vibration being transmitted directly through the tripod legs.

I just hope that you were a talented boy scout and got your knots well sorted out


Strangely there was surprisingly little vibration. Maybe because of the sheer size and weight of the beast. It was one of those very long bodied choppers with a rotor at each end. If I remember correctly it could carry at least a dozen passengers. Also the old wooden tripod legs had a slight flexion that helped absorb vibration in a way that modern tubular legs don't.

To help with this kind of filming I developed my own personal technique. If you look closely at the tripod, the legs terminate in a quite large bowl. It is used to level the the pan and tilt head which has a spherical bottom. Once levelled the levelling bowl is locked off by tightening the knob underneath. When I shot like you see here I would turn things on their head, so to speak, and lock the pan and tilt controls of the head itself completely. I slathered the levelling bowl with really thick grease and left the levelling lock knob slightly released. With a bit of trial and error you could get things so you could smoothly move the levelling bowl to pan and tilt the camera in any direction. This served a dual purpose. It helped damp and absorb some of the higher frequency vibration and it enabled me to not only tilt the camera up and down in the normal manner but also to tilt it sideways for continuous horizon correction. It was as crude and basic as the rest of the setup but surprisingly effective.

Documentary budgets of those days quite simply didn't permit the high cost of proper counter balanced heli-rigs and the specialised operator who comes with them. We had make do with what we had.

As for the boy scout bit I was, believe it or not, quite a wiz at knots an' stuff ........... I am still here to talk about it ....... so it seems I didn't fall out of anything.

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Posted on 04/02/19 2:24:16 PM
DavidMac
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
GKB wrote:
... but I did think that there was a lack of an interesting background ...


Much better!!

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Posted on 04/02/19 2:42:58 PM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
lwc wrote:
Fascinating discussion for this layman to read, most interesting indeed. Keep it going.

A question comes to mind: Would a drone be used today for much of this type of aerial
photography?

Also, I see a lot of banner designs in your photos...





I like the banner Loyd.

I spent nigh on 30 years as an air-to-air photographer when I wasn't doing the day-job. Little did my dad know what he was starting when he gave me a camera at the age of 14. Unfortunately and to my eternal regret, he passed away before I really got into my stride.

As you would imagine, there are lots of tales of derring-do. It was just the ticket for a big kid in an adult's body that loved flying. There were also a couple of times when I nearly didn't get to go home for dinner that night. If I had my life over again there are many things I wouldn't repeat but I would certainly do the air-to-air work again at the drop of a hat. My only real disappointment was that NASA never offered me a ride in the Shuttle. I have long had an image in my head that can now never be taken but I did get to fly with some incredible aircraft and some incredible pilots.

Although it can be done with the big military drones it would not be a good idea for this kind of work as you need to have the 'big picture' of what is around you in terms of cloudscapes, lighting etc. As the 'director of operations' the photographer is able to say 'take me three miles over that-a-away and then turn onto a southerly heading', I'll tell you when to turn and when to stop'.

You don't have the finesse of control, the flexibility or the speed from a drone unless you are going for the likes of a Predator and then it would be much cheaper to use a normal aircraft, even if a Predator could be made available from its other committments ... and there are very few pilots that would be interested in flying close formation aerobatics alongside an unmanned aircraft.

The photographer has the basic images in his mind before take off and you need to have a briefing before you get into the air so that everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. Whilst the pilots are in charge of safety the photographer is the director of the operation. I once had to tell the head of a certain European air force training school that his briefing was not going to achieve the end result. You could see him bristle at a civilian telling him this but he was my pilot and he did what I requested and we got the images.

The biggest briefing I ever did was the Canberra shoot where we had 4 Canberra aircraft to shoot plus 1 Hawk as my camera plane, 12 aircrew for the Canberras, the Station Commander, his deputy, my pilot and myself. Preceding that was a separate briefing with the Squadron Commander, who was flying the lead Canberra, to go over all the images and how, in detail, we were going to shoot them. The RAF was putting up a lot of ironmongery for my cameras.

The two briefings alone took a couple of hours followed by 1 1/2 hours in the air.

If you haven't already seen it go to www.gkbgrahics.com for some more air-to-air work.




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Posted on 04/02/19 3:47:47 PM
DavidMac
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
lwc wrote:
Fascinating discussion for this layman to read, most interesting indeed. Keep it going.

A question comes to mind: Would a drone be used today for much of this type of aerial
photography?



Yes. Here's a little bit of history for you.

In the days before video you had to physically look through the camera viewfinder with one eye. This meant you were, to some degree 'attached' to it. So it was important that both camera and camera operator with both isolated from vibration.

This was done with special camera rigs of which the best known was the Tyler mount. Here is what it looked like. To give you an idea of scale its about five foot long from lens hood to counterbalance. The second row of seats were removed from the helicopter and this beast was inserted in their place.



The camera operator sat on the white pad, which was vibration isolated, with the column behind him and the camera support arm coming over his shoulder. The support column also had a damped vibration isolator at it's base. The camera could be swung in any direction tilted up and down and rotated on it's own lens exit for horizon correction.

Here is one in use.



With the advent of video it became possible to detach the camera entirely from it's operator and put it outside the helicopter. It was placed in a windproof sphere and was panned and tilted by motors, horizon was kept level with gyro stabilisers. The camera was operated from inside the helicopter using a joystick and a video viewfinder. This system had the advantage that it permitted straight ahead and vertical downward views which had hitherto been impossible with the side mounted door rigs. Initially the camera itself wasn't video it was 35mm cinema film. The video was a tiny low resolution camera attached to the viewfinder of the movie camera just for framing. Later the same system was used with high resolution video cameras in place of film.



As cameras got a bit less heavy the next step was complete radio control from the ground. Large model helicopters about 6 to 8 foot long were used with the camera in about a 10-12" sphere. The entire system was flown from the ground by radio control and the camera operated in the same way. Sadly I haven't been able to find a photo of one of these, which a shame as they were really rather splendid! They were exactly like a scaled down helicopter. Nothing like the multi rotored drones of today.

Now of course we have drones. As well as the cheap drones controlled from a smartphone there are serious and expensive professional drones carrying cameras of up to 8K resolution. (Thats roughly the equivalent of 70mm IMAX film). Although the tough high end magnesium bodied drones are expensive you can still buy one outright and equip it with professional cameras for the cost of a few hours flying time in a helicopter.

I have never worked with them but it seems inevitable they will render all other forms of aerial filming (except high speed jets or exceptional altitudes) completely obsolete.

Gordon is probably far more up to date on this than I.

So now you are well equipped for the next golf clubhouse trivia quiz.

Also, I see a lot of banner designs in your photos...





Very nice ...... shall I send you some family snaps too.

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Posted on 04/02/19 3:50:43 PM
DavidMac
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
I see that Gordon has already got in with some more detailed drone info while I was typing my reply.

It is interesting to see that he has looked at them from a photographers point of view and I as a movie cameraman's point of view. I suspect that he is right. There is maybe much they cannot easily do for a photographer whereas there so much they can do for movie - especially at close quarters and in confined spaces.

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Posted on 04/02/19 4:02:27 PM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
Many years ago I did actually very briefly toy with the idea of jumping in at the very, very, very deep end with setting up a business with something like a LearJet or an HS125 executive jet modified to carry a gyro-stabilised camera mount on the underside. This would have carried a stills and a video camera and be remotely controlled from inside the aircraft ... and it was all pre-digital. This would have involved negotiating with all the world's top aircraft manufacturers for contracts and an investment running into the millions of pounds/dollars.

Sense prevailed very quickly and I decided to stick with the guaranteed pension of the day job. This has now been done by at least one other photographer but I didn't fancy the precarious income situation, especially as there isn't enough room for two operators in competition.

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Posted on 04/02/19 4:36:14 PM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
DavidMac wrote:
I see that Gordon has already got in with some more detailed drone info while I was typing my reply.

It is interesting to see that he has looked at them from a photographers point of view and I as a movie cameraman's point of view. I suspect that he is right. There is maybe much they cannot easily do for a photographer whereas there so much they can do for movie - especially at close quarters and in confined spaces.


Drones - correct term, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles - are an amazing tool for film makers and photographers. They can get you into places that is just not possible with any other device. One of the most spectacular sequences I have ever seen was shot from a UAV in the middle of a massive fireworks display at night; I think it may have been shot in Hong Kong. There is no other way that you can do this. And we have all seen what can be done when the BBC commissions a wildlife series.

The narrow point I was making was that, in the very specific case of air to air photography, they would not be very useful ... for everything else the only thing that stands in the way is the imagination of the director/photographer.



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Posted on 04/02/19 5:10:01 PM
lwc
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
Gordon your work is wonderful, "Sextuplets" is brilliant and alone worth the price of admission.

re: infrared photography - Do you still use film? Or have you modified digital sensors for infrared only?

Thanks David, most informative.

This thread should be required reading for anyone that has flown in a small plane and/or picked up a camera.

I've always been interested in photography. My first 35mm camera was a 1956 Kodak Signet 40, along with a selenium light meter, a birthday gift from my parents. Years later I purchased a Pentax. Next it was Canon stuff for me, multiple bodies, Ftb, F1n, AE1, A1, etc. My favorite two lenses were a 17mm f/4 (I loved super-wide-angle) and an 85mm f/1.2L aspherical (I think the glass alone weighed 8 lbs.) and misc. lenses from there up to a 500mm mirror.

I entered one amateur photography contest (photo taken with the 500mm), and was fortunate to take 1st. place, I never entered another, only one way but down from there.


Posted on 04/02/19 5:28:18 PM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
It was actually Kodak's High Speed Infrared film that inspired me to shoot in infrared but I never used it. It was only many years later that I started shooting in IR. I had an old Nikon D100 lying around gathering dust. I saw an article on converting digital cameras to IR so took the plunge. My first images just looked so beautiful that I had to make this a major project. My main IR work is now done on a Canon 70D with a 720nm filter but I have had a Canon G12 converted with a 590nm filter along with a Canon EOS M. The G12 is now giving me problems so doesn't get used much. The 'M' has a sensor that didn't give good reults at 590nm wavelength but has been re-converted to 720nm which is quite acceptable.

The next big outing for the 70D will be one week today when I go to Colombia for 4 weeks. The main plan is wildlife and bird photography where I hope to be filming humming birds in slow motion but I'll also be shooting Infrared landscapes.

Did I mention that my wife says I'm also supposed to be going to her son's wedding sometime during the trip?

If infrared takes your fancy have a look at Lifepixel's website. They are based in Washington state and have done all but one of my conversions.


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Posted on 04/02/19 11:47:19 PM
lwc
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
Don't forget the wedding!


Let us know when your Colombia photos are posted at your site, I don't want to miss seeing them.

Well, I spent the day at Lifepixel's website and am totally intrigued. From what you have written and the photos from your website, I am interested in one of their cameras to give IR a go. The 720nm sounds like what I would be best for me. I'm not interested in any color IR only dramatic B&W. A single zoom lens would have to fit my budget. My intent would be to play with it for a while and then give it to my grand-daughter, she has become interested in photography and likes to work with landscapes.





Posted on 05/02/19 09:22:15 AM
DavidMac
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
I am going to jump back for a moment to drones. Shot in 2014 the music video "Don't let me Down" by OK GO was ground breaking and is still one of the most remarkable and astonishing pieces of drone shooting yet. (You certainly couldn't do it with a helicopter!). At the start you have no idea that this is drone work or what is to come, but it develops into a single seamless shot over five minutes long that leaves you gasping in amazement. If you haven't seen it you must!!

It was shot at half speed which, with musical moves and lip sync, is in itself no mean feat. There is more detail about it here. According to this it was shot with an octocopter (which I presume to be an eight rotor drone).

An astounding combination of precision drone operating and even more astonishing precision Japanese choreography, this is an absolute MUST SEE!! Watch right to the end even after the music has stopped.

Then try and find the nerve to lie and tell me you weren't amazed ........

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Posted on 05/02/19 10:03:49 AM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
DavidMac wrote:
I am going to jump back for a moment to drones. Shot in 2014 the music video "Don't let me Down" by OK GO was ground breaking and is still one of the most remarkable and astonishing pieces of drone shooting yet. (You certainly couldn't do it with a helicopter!). At the start you have no idea that this is drone work or what is to come, but it develops into a single seamless shot over five minutes long that leaves you gasping in amazement. If you haven't seen it you must!!

It was shot at half speed which, with musical moves and lip sync, is in itself no mean feat. There is more detail about it here. According to this it was shot with an octocopter (which I presume to be an eight rotor drone).

An astounding combination of precision drone operating and even more astonishing precision Japanese choreography, this is an absolute MUST SEE!! Watch right to the end even after the music has stopped.

Then try and find the nerve to lie and tell me you weren't amazed ........


As I said - the only thing that stands in the way is the imagination of the director or the photographer or, in this case, the choreographer.

This really is a superb piece of video; well shot, well directed and amazingly choreographed. I cannot believe that this was done in one take but I cannot see any joins.

And the UAV passing through that wonderfully placed layer of cloud at the end is superb.

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Posted on 05/02/19 10:06:46 AM
DavidMac
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
Well it's claimed to be one shot ........ and I have never found any joins either. I am sure it is exactly what is claimed.

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Posted on 05/02/19 10:16:01 AM
GKB
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Re: Wonderful aerial photograph for GORDON
lwc wrote:
Don't forget the wedding!


Let us know when your Colombia photos are posted at your site, I don't want to miss seeing them.

Well, I spent the day at Lifepixel's website and am totally intrigued. From what you have written and the photos from your website, I am interested in one of their cameras to give IR a go. The 720nm sounds like what I would be best for me. I'm not interested in any color IR only dramatic B&W. A single zoom lens would have to fit my budget. My intent would be to play with it for a while and then give it to my grand-daughter, she has become interested in photography and likes to work with landscapes.



Landscapes in infrared are glorious.

There are a few things to be aware of with infrared photography. One of them is lens choice as not all lenses are suitable. Often the cheaper lenses are better than the most expensive. Check out this website for Kolarivision which is another camera conversion company based in the USA. This is a comprehensive list of lenses that are either good or bad (sometimes very bad) in IR.

http://kolarivision.com/articles/lens-hotspot-list/

As an example much of my work is done using a Sigma 12-24mm lens. I use the Mk 1 version. When I converted my Canon 70D I bought a nice new 12-24 but it was the Mk 2 version with a different lens design. It was useless as it had a very large hotspot right in the middle of the frame. I had to return it and search for a used Mk1.

I also tried a Canon 10-20mm. This was an atrocious lens as not only did it have an awful hotspot but edge sharpness at infrared wavelengths effectively made the lens useless. That was true at visible wavelengths as well; Canon should be ashamed of themselves for marketing a lens this bad.

There are other aspects to be aware of. Check your PMs for more info.


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