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Posted on 05/08/04 8:50:12 PM |
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Atomicfog
Virtual Visualizer Posts: 238 Reply  |
I just ordered you book "How to cheat in Photoshop"
I have been a Photoshop user now for 5 years, and I just ordered you book "How to cheat in Photoshop". I should get it soon. From what hear it is very good, and I can't wait to get it  ._________________ -Atomic |
Posted on 16/08/04 12:57:33 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 6846 Reply  |
Re: I just ordered you book
Hope you enjoy it. Come back and join in! |
Posted on 18/08/04 1:21:35 PM |
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Atomicfog
Virtual Visualizer Posts: 238 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
I have been reading it, I really like it alot. I never used the pen tool once until now, I always used the magnetic lasso (Which I still like  )_________________ -Atomic |
Posted on 18/08/04 2:14:36 PM |
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trinityofone
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
I could never get on with the magnetic lasso, It may be quicker than the pen for some things but I prefer the amount of control beziers offer. _________________ It must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays |
Posted on 18/08/04 2:20:10 PM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply  |
Re: I just ordered you book
Yes, I only ever use the Magnetic Lasso where the contrast is high between the object and the background and even then I'm more likely to use either the Magic Wand or stick to the Pen Tool because it gives a better edge. |
Posted on 18/08/04 2:26:47 PM |
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tabitha 1
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
I always used the magnetic lasso before I discovered HTCIP, now its either Quick Mask (Ok I cheat) or I use the Pen (which I am getting gradually more proficient with). It does take some getting used to though, and unless I am doing something like eyes, where the perfect curve is essential I do tend to use it in small points, I find that the curve goes a little haywire after the first one... Ok I know thats just me!  |
Posted on 18/08/04 3:13:53 PM |
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trinityofone
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
Tabby, you are ALT+Clicking the points to create a corner on each aren't you? _________________ It must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays |
Posted on 18/08/04 3:33:17 PM |
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tabitha 1
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
ermmmmmm..... maybe thats what I'm doing wrong 
Guess I'm just a page skipper too ... Cheers Trinity, I will try that out |
Posted on 18/08/04 5:24:08 PM |
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trinityofone
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
I think Steve uses a slightly different method in the book, only using corners in certain places, rather than for every point. _________________ It must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays |
Posted on 19/08/04 08:55:45 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 6846 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
You only want to create a corner point where there's a sharp change in direction - otherwise, stick to smooth points for a cleaner outline. Tabitha, get used to using very few points on your curves - I'd suggest you check out the mug tutorial again for an idea on how to draw the curves. I know it's a real pain to learn, but the Pen tool really is the single most essential drawing tool in Photoshop. You just have to learn it, I'm afraid! |
Posted on 19/08/04 09:08:43 AM |
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tabitha 1
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
I'm sure that the more I use the Pen tool, in the manner it is supposed to be used in, the more I will understand how the curves work. I am fine until I need to turn a corner with a large angle, then it goes haywire, but the ALT-Click seems to be the secret there. I will get there, slowly but surly  |
Posted on 20/08/04 12:03:06 PM |
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Atomicfog
Virtual Visualizer Posts: 238 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
I am pretty good with the pen tool, but I like to use it with somewhat simple shapes. _________________ -Atomic |
Posted on 20/08/04 12:07:41 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 6846 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
The real strength of the Pen tool lies in its ability to outline any shape, even really complex ones. Keep plugging away with this tool, until it becomes second nature! |
Posted on 21/08/04 07:28:00 AM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
I think the reason why the pen tool is so alien to people when they first experience it is because it is so unlike natural drawing. Apart from the Magic Lasso the other selection tools roughly trace around objects the way we learn to draw. If you were to be asked to draw a circle on a piece of paper you wouldn't do so by creating points and then manipulating those points until they resembled a circle, even if that was possible, you'd put the pen down and draw around tracing the arc of a circle until the ends met up again. Before I got the hang of the Pen Tool I predominantly used the Polygonal Lasso and zoomed in as much as I could and made lots of short connection points, which when completed roughly gave me a smooth selection. But in using the Pen Tool correctly I could make far more professional selections in a fraction of the time it took me with any of the other tools - unless, of course, it was using the Magic Wand on a solid colour background. What I tend to do now is keep my left hand hovering over the Ctrl, Alt and Space bar and my right hand manipulates the mouse, so that when I'm using the Pen Tool I know that pressing Ctrl activates the Direct Selection Tool which will allow me to adjust the position of any point or the Bezier handle of a point or by selecting a line between two bezier points will access the Rubber Band mode which allows me to stretch the line like a rubber band; that pressing Alt allows me to access the Convert Point Tool to fine tune the Bezier curve of any point to either a smooth curve or a bezier corner; and by pressing the Space Bar while zoomed in will activate the Hand Tool to allow me to move around the image I'm selecting. I know that this is retracing some of what Steve and Trinity has already explained, but what I wanted to explain is the relationship between the Pen Tool and its short-cut keys which when used in combination is really the most powerful selection tool you have in your Photoshop arsenal. That's just my take on the Pen Tool issue, I hope it proves of some use to anybody struggling with it. |
Posted on 25/08/04 11:00:44 PM |
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Hank
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
By experience, the best and fastest resolve to the Pen Tool unwieldiness/learning curve is simply to use it as little as possible for the purposes it imparts. I have several other programs which I use to augment Photoshop 7.0.1 - which I have been using for about a year now - and they don't cost anywhere near what Photoshop does. Microsoft Picture-It (2002) is especially excellent for producing all cut outs - and MUCH more. VERY user friendly. One simply "trace and clicks" around the subject/object, closes the loop and saves it as a .png (or .pdf) which can then be opened in Photoshop and resized, .et al. Additionally, subsequent to closing the "trace loop", one can then make easy corrections at various points in the trace by positioning the arrow, then left click and hold while moving the trace line for better positioning at any point in the entire trace. To my knowledge - at this juncture - one cannot correct the trace line in Photoshop. After closing the loop, one is committed to the trace. Not good! This "Picture-It approach" is far, far faster/simpler and produces the required results in MUCH less time without any hassles. Simple to use, and the result is identically the same as those used in Photoshop. Adobe desperately needs to work on a faster, easier, more "user friendly" cut out approach to save time as well as the dire awkwardness of the Pen Tool method - or the "others" - in Photoshop as well. Your book contributions have been - of course - directed to the "Photoshop Only User", and I can certainly greatly appreciate that, but as a fellow graphic artist I might also recommend that professional - as well as non-professional - artists seriously consider other graphics programs for use in augmentation to Photoshop. After all, even Adobe must approach all of their methods in programming such that they achieve a desired result(s) without infringing on copyright laws. It is - I am certain - this "copyright sidestep" which has produced Adobe's approach to cut out via the Pen Tool awkwardness/learning curve. Too bad for the "Photoshop Only" user. Other graphics programs allow viable alternatives to approaches/sidesteps in Adobe's copyright infringements procedures. My recommendation here is: keep it as easy and simple as possible on yourselves, folks. Always create quickly and without hassle and frustrations. One final recommendation I feel compelled to make: if one is currently using a conventional mouse (heaven forbid!) for use in any graphics program - DUMP IT! Moving a mouse around on a pad with your hand is like drawing with a brick. Instead, get a marble mouse, especially one with the marble on the side and the "click buttons"/wheel on the top. (I use a Logitech TrackMan Wheel. Excellent!) This approach affords a far better facility in manipulating anything graphically - especially drawing, smudging and the likes. Those who are currently using a marble mouse know what I mean. Steve, I am going through your new book now "How to Cheat...", and am picking up lots of good approaches to various things. Well done, my man! However, some of the keyboard symbols you use in the book (the "looped corners square" - c.f. your Temporary Move tool - and the "partial X" - c.f. your Temporary Dodge with Burn tool - symbols) simply are not on my standard keyboard (?) which renders your shortcut procedures completely useless to me. Which keys do you recommend using on a standard keyboard in lieu of the two mentioned above? |
Posted on 26/08/04 07:24:27 AM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
While I agree there are several worthy alternatives to Photoshop, Photoshop still remains the all-in-one industry standard for image manipulation. What you describe about the "trace and click" of Microsoft Picture-It can be more than adequately performed by using the Pen Tool - as it doesn't make a direct selection but instead "traces" out a path of which all of the points of that path are editable, and you can even stop tracing out your path and go off to do something else and then return to completing your path at a later stage. When you are completely happy with your Path then you convert it to a selection or make a vector mask (something I believe Microsoft Picture-It cannot do). So I don't recommend that people should forego the Pen Tool simply because it seems complex. Photoshop seems complex when compared against it's counterparts, but when people start to explore it's depths they realise that it is considered the best image app. around for a very good reason - and the Pen Tool is the choice of the professional for making professional selections. So I would recommend that you go back to Photoshop and play around with the Pen Tool until you are comfortable with its controls. "Steve, I am going through your new book now "How to Cheat...", and am picking up lots of good approaches to various things. Well done, my man! However, some of the keyboard symbols you use in the book (the "looped corners square" - c.f. your Temporary Move tool - and the "partial X" - c.f. your Temporary Dodge with Burn tool - symbols) simply are not on my standard keyboard (?) which renders your shortcut procedures completely useless to me. Which keys do you recommend using on a standard keyboard in lieu of the two mentioned above?" The symbols on your keyboard are determined by what computer you are running Mac symbols are different to their Windows counterpart - The partial X, as you describe it, is the Mac's version of the Alt key in Windows (there are some typos in the book namely page 107 Hot Tips shows Ctrl key symbol for switching between the Dodge and Burn tool when it should be the Alt key) The looped corner squares (Cmd) is the Macs version of the Ctrl key on Windows systems. Becky |
Posted on 26/08/04 09:18:26 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 6846 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
Thanks for explaining that, Becky. Hank, I hope that makes things clear! |
Posted on 26/08/04 8:28:08 PM |
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Hank
Guest Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
Thanks, Becky, for your comments. I had thought the two symbols were for Mac, but was somewhat unclear. Obviously, I have a P.C. who's keyboard is without those particular symbols. So noted! Now, I can get back to work in trying out some of Steve's approaches. Thanks for your comment also, Steve. As I intended to imply - in the end, it's what works best and is more comfortable for the user. I do get the same results in cut outs with the Picture-It program as you described with Photoshop. I have used the Pen Tool (.et al) many times for this procedure and merely find the alternative approach to such faster without all of the fiddling. Each to his/her own, I suppose. Whatever works. Steve, I am pleased to hear that you might be addressing .gif images/animations in you next book. I got into animation (Image Ready) a few weeks ago and find it fun and most interesting. I process all of my photo work in Photoshop, establish individual frames therefrom and use the Image Ready program for final "touch-ups"/ corrections and proceed from there. I used your great idea on using the "Liquify" procedure to achieve some of the expressions in the attached .gif animation. I hope it animates for you and that you like it. Thanks again to both.  |
Posted on 26/08/04 8:36:07 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 6846 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
Great animation! Your use of timing is particularly enjoyable - just when you think it's over, something else happens. Nice. But probably too big to go on a website, don't you think? Animations really bump up the file size. Incidentally, I've put a Mac/PC key on the bottom right hand corner of every page where the shortcuts appear. It's all colour coded to make it easier to understand. Not easy enough, obviously... |
Posted on 26/08/04 8:54:21 PM |
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maiden
Golden Gif Gagster Posts: 471 Reply |
Re: I just ordered you book
That's a great animation Hank very witty and cheeky. But I'm not sure what you mean when you say you establish your individual frames in Photoshop - do you mean that you create each frame as a layer in Photoshop and use Image Ready as a flipbook? Because you will probably find that you can save an awful lot in file size if you utilise Photoshop's layers for individual components of your animation - eyes, mouth, head etc. (to use your example gif) and build your frames in Image Ready by moving the individual component layers or making certain layers visible and others invisible to build up your animation. This reduces the amount of colours and seperates the moving components from the static ones - meaning that Image Ready only has to optimise the static elements once. If you are taking a sort of flip-book of images to Image Ready it has to work harder to optimise each frame leading to greater file sizes. (i.e. If you wanted to have an animation of a car driving across from one end of an animation to the other with a static background - isolating the cars movement to its own layer will save on file size than if you had the car and background as a single layer but each layer showed the car progressing across the width of the animation.) I hope that makes sense to you - but if that is what you are already doing then okay, no problem. Becky |
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