| » Forum Index » Readers' gallery » Topic: 300 critique needed |
|
Posted on 29/12/09 7:02:13 PM |
|
tat
* Posts: 29 Reply  |
300 critique needed
Hi All, This is my first "big" comopositing job: 18 images + model shot in my studio. Those who watched the "300" movie can relate to "weird" colours. While it started like a "300" movie type shot, I don't think I want to emulate the "look" to the dot. HOwever, I am looking for constructive criticism and will take any amount of it as I would like to improve. The main thing I am looking for is how seamless the parts are integrated. And of course, whatever else I neglected. Here is the smaller version : 
The bigger one is here: http://www.tatianaphoto.com/images/300_copy.jpg The bigger version is still not overly big, but I hope it is enough to spot possible issues. Thanks and Happy New Year! |
Posted on 29/12/09 9:03:44 PM |
|
redsnapper
*** Posts: 134 Reply  |
Re: 300 critique needed
hello tatiana, i am not really sure if i should do that. should i? may i state that when i do i have removed all sugary bits and still don´t want to sound arrogant, obnoxious, having an attitude or whatever else one could come up with. agreed?---mmmh--- - the lighting looks sort of unreal because it comes from too many directions - unless the warrior wears a switched on torch below his cape there is no light below the left armpit - the shield is illuminated from impossible directions -when watches are displayed in still ads it is either 10 past 10 or 10 to 2 for a more positive appearance. unless the sign is a company logo i would change it or at least turn it around. - the clouds suggest wind. the cape is made from papier maché. the hair could be at least a little fluffy. - wouldn´t the cape throw some kind of shadow? - there could be some lit spots on the mountains and some in the dessert. -the guys shadow would comply with the trees shadows, be slimmer and run out the right side about 1cm above the bottom - if the dessert is out of focus (oof) where the trees are the trees have to be too and the mountains. -even a burned down tree reflects light somewhere, maybe in a blue-ish black if that fits the overall colouring. - soften the guys outline -soften lit hill ridge on the right -soften tree shadows - looks like it was shot on a leveled 35mm lens. stopped down to 4-5.6 the background would be much more oof i shut up now and feel bad even so i hope i could help _________________ Was auch immer geschieht: Nie dürft ihr so tief sinken, von dem Kakao, durch den man euch zieht, auch noch zu trinken! |
Posted on 31/12/09 03:32:22 AM |
|
tat
* Posts: 29 Reply |
Re: 300 critique needed
Thanks a lot, Don't feel bad - I was looking for critique as I clearly stated. It is so hard to get carried away and step out and look with a critical eye. There is one thing I actually just realized as I was looking at your remarks of the shadow - the clouds themsevles actually would cast a shadows, which are not present at all!!!! Yeh, my tree shadows were actually even more harsh. I guess compared to what I had when I redid it it was so much better that I didn't pay attention to brigning even more soft. I am not sure what you mean by the 35, mm lens and stepping to 4.-56. The mountains, the hill, the field and the foreground grass are from different photographs and I believe the background was shot like with at least 120mm (the average for them). If you mean the background has too much details - yes, this was one of the things I almost knew I'd have to fix. It also competes with a model, it is so busy. I guess having assembled it all piece by piece, I was really protective of the details  Yes, it will be the first thing to work on.
the only thing I have problems relating is this one: "-when watches are displayed in still ads it is either 10 past 10 or 10 to 2 for a more positive appearance. unless the sign is a company logo i would change it or at least turn it around. " I am familiar with a concept, but I am not sure how it would relate to a scene where the sun is almost overhead..... ok, according to the model, not the trees ?
Thanks again for spending so much time and for such a detailed analysis. Much appreciated! Happy New Year! |
Posted on 31/12/09 10:46:16 AM |
|
redsnapper
*** Posts: 134 Reply |
Re: 300 critique needed
g´day tatiana, only fragments of time left before my chances on a loaf of bread and some new year explosives from the shops run out. as i read just before some americans already overdid on the explosives part in afghanistan yesterday. had the warrior a little more headroom, the frame, was it not a montage, would appear to have been shot on a 35mm lens on 35mm film. the apperture controls the depth of field, loose it (the dof) sunspots on the mountains, the dessert, the background would serve up more details and sort out the shadow casting clouds. the shield lit by that overhead burning glass in my opinion would reflect less and from different parts. the feeling i got from that flipped V was kind of negative, hence the watch explanation. if the V is kept it could maybe point in another direction. if it pointed to the front the Vs upper length would reflect and point forward (the guy would appear more focused). last, for good measure, with the devil whispering in my ear again, you could maybe change the expression on the guys face. right now he looks as if he is worried about possibly having forgotten to turn off the stove. which as we all know can really mess up any quest. anyhow, i wish you and everyone on this forum a very happy, healthy, successful new year and a raving party into it. horrido _________________ Mein Freund, die Kunst ist alt und neu. Es war die Art zu allen Zeiten, durch Drei und Eins und Eins und Drei Irrtum statt Wahrheit zu verbreiten. |
Posted on 03/01/10 9:25:11 PM |
|
Sophie
Political Parodist Posts: 595 Reply  |
Re: 300 critique needed
Hi tat Very striking image. I really like it. However... the thing that hits me is the light on the clouds is almost identical in strength/emphasis in terms of light and shade to the figure of the warrior so that neither has supremacy. If you want the clouds to be the centre of attention than decrease the contrast on the man and vice versa. It also seems a pity to me that other elements in the image are under emphasised. For example the trees. Of course you have your own idea of what you are trying to achieve and this is only an opinion. Best wishes Sophie |
Posted on 05/01/10 8:36:39 PM |
|
Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply  |
Re: 300 critique needed
Hi Tat, Unable to give comments as requested much earlier, plus not sure I do it well, or can add much more to previous comments now. But since you ask ... Great work. An interesting subject and style. Hope you had some fun and enjoyed creating it. Montages can take longer than we may think or perceive! When the layers, masks, paths, etc grow quickly can do the head-in! I am not familiar with "300" style really, but referenced and think you have used for your own use captured the tone/hue and contrast rendering well. Most important, like Sophie, its up to you and your style of what creativity images you wish to create that is up to you and should not lose. Some of my thoughts align with some of the comments already covered, so will not repeat. Only a couple of things you may wish to consider and may help with some others' points. Maybe consider aerial/atmospherical perspective for the mountains and specifically the sky and spacial perspective. These can dramatically add to effect of depth. Also if you give more space above his head (see others comments), you will have more scope for this and work . Diffusing some edges and maybe internals of the clouds might also be worth considering in this context, but not a to much! otherwise I think you may lose your intended character.
Finally, small point, you might consider just very slightly, inflating (distorting) his chest and a little bit more muscle profile in the legs, but these are very subjective and may go away from your intent. Further can be tough work and maybe adds nothing/little to what you want. Look forward to your continuing extended montage work when you can 
Hope this helps/encourages. Enjoy, Trevor PS Yes: intersting we have overlaps in out profiles of work and interests
|
Posted on 09/01/10 10:16:01 PM |
|
tat
* Posts: 29 Reply |
Re: 300 critique needed
Thanks Sophie and Jota, Yes, it's time-consuming... The image took 3 days to produce (including with the studio shoot of the model and selecting the images). The original "300" look is quite interesting. The whole movie was shot against green screen in the studio and then finished in software. Interesting comment on the clouds and overall atmoshere.... In the original movie, the background is not clearly defined and is quite wishy-washy. That was my original intend. Now, after working on it for 3 days, I just couldn't and "blur" the thing out. It is my first really big composite, although I am not a novice to compositing (but would use only a few images), so I really wanted to keep it all in, equal details. On a big screen, full resolution it really looks different - the details really pop. I know that to look like a real 300, it would have to have less details, but I am going to make it on a different image as I think this one is a bit important to me as the first big work. The model would totally hate to hear advice on defining the legs - he is one of those body-builders a bit on a vain side (as is the case with most of them ) and he said he is not happy he is not paying enough attention to working out the legs But yes, although I knew that even before he took his clothes off as I interview them before the shoot, I kinda forgot about the legs. Thanks, I will definitely take that into consideration. This is VERY IMPORTANT comment. Spartans didn't go and do the gym thing. They had funcitional, proportional bodies that were developed by natural means (of work and killing .
Thanks again for taking time to comment! |
Posted on 09/01/10 11:40:16 PM |
|
redsnapper
*** Posts: 134 Reply |
Re: 300 critique needed
_________________ Mein Freund, die Kunst ist alt und neu. Es war die Art zu allen Zeiten, durch Drei und Eins und Eins und Drei Irrtum statt Wahrheit zu verbreiten. `mephisto´ |
Posted on 11/01/10 00:26:29 AM |
|
tank172
ThreeDee Thriller Posts: 692 Reply  |
Re: 300 critique needed
I think you've got it down pretty well. The only thing that's getting me is the lighting / shading on the model is different than that of the environment. I didn't read all the posts, so this may have been mentioned already 
A couple years ago I attended a Photoshop training course with Dave Cross. One of his demonstrations covered a technique by Matt Kloskowski on the "300" effect using only ACR and a little Photoshop. For the life of me, I haven't been able to find the course material that gave the presets & directions. I did a bit of searching and found that Matt has already released the presets and they're available on his website. It looks like he's modified them for Lightroom though, so if you only have Photoshop feel free to send me a PM and I'll get the numbers for you to use in ACR - which should be very similar. There may be a couple settings in the preset that could further enhance the look you're after. The best thing IMO, may be to complete all compositing, lighting and shading on the overall montage first and 'convert' to the 300 effect as one of the last steps in the process. Cheers, -Chris http://www.lightroomkillertips.com/2008/monday-presets-the-300-look/ |
Posted on 11/01/10 11:42:06 AM |
|
Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: 300 critique needed
Interesting Chris. FYI I found another ACR preset here for comparison? http://jeradhill.com/photoshop-camera-raw-preset-jerads-300-look again I am no "300" expert/critique. Applied it and its seemed to work ok. Trevor |
Posted on 11/01/10 12:58:01 PM |
|
Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: 300 critique needed
Tat, Re: legs, only a small point, I'm sure they are fine, especially if maybe stressed/tensed them for the shoots . Anyway, details difficult to see in your small resolution image. I think he is fit enough!Too fit!
I was just maybe thinking along the lines of something like Michelangelo's rendering of David http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Michelangelos_David.jpg Its all your personal style choice of course. Maybe I spend too much time with cyclists ;  http://rushracing.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/chris20hoy20legs1.jpg - thats going too far!
Look forward to seeing your on going work ... Enjoy, Trevor |
Posted on 23/01/10 10:23:18 PM |
|
Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: 300 critique needed
Tat, How is this one going? Dont know if it helps, but sometimes I find its good to have a fresh restart. One thing with PS you can keep many things you want to use again? You can take on board any of the feedback you might want to use of course. You seemed to have a lot! I'd be more than interested at least see latest version or your feedback. Trevor |
Posted on 30/01/10 1:59:05 PM |
|
chris berry
Overhead Overlord Posts: 724 Reply  |
300 critique needed
Hi tat I haven't trawled through you're other feedback so apologies if I'm repeating anything. Great job, the only thing I would change is the colour hue on your character. The red/magenta needs desaturating on him as tonally, he doesn't match the background. Colour matching is critical in making things look "real", as is light and shade, but I think the lighting on yours is pretty good. Hope this helps Chris |