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Posted on 25/06/11 07:20:21 AM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply  |
Rescue Attempt
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff462/DanielTokyo/Rescue_Attempt_HR.jpg I wanted to create a kind of lunar terrain/atmosphere, and use some of NASA's 3D models that Steve pointed out a couple of months ago. (Unfortunately, the image has totally lost it's sharpness after being converted to jpeg!) 
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Posted on 26/06/11 00:27:33 AM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply  |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Daniel, you do great works with the media you use (that must be difficult). For me: this time; great image as a narrative and SF art? I love the Art. As a physicist can see many problems, but it does not matter... rendition important, art, explain, I might have a few comments/questions, but not sure you need those this time? (Mr SC would have more !  ). |
Posted on 26/06/11 06:11:43 AM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Hi Trevor ... And thanks for the kind comments. I am happy that you liked the image. The original story I was trying to tell was a little bit different (I wanted to call the image "They were here before us!!"), but then I needed some additional 3D elements that I couldn't find off the shelf! And I simply don't have enough time to start making 3D models from scratch! The location of the scene is not a particular planet, and that shiny star in the scene is not the sun. Just some imaginary combination of planets, starts and lighting phenomena ... I would love to hear the problems you see with the "physics" of the scene. Don't be shy, tell me ...  And also if you have any questions, let me know. That's why we post our images after all, right?
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Posted on 27/06/11 3:31:44 PM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Hi daniel, Thanks for elaborating on the story. I had a different view! I should have said maybe a few problems, or questions, especially after you explain the context.
My view was this was an asteroid approaching the moon and earth with the sun at the centre of our solar system. With that not being the case many of my potential comments evaporate most likely. Depending on the location and intensity of the light source, the sky would be black and the shadows on the planets/moons maybe more acute if it was the sun. I also had a question on how the beam of the torches maybe rendered if in a vacuum, but accepting the "air" may not be breathable, hence the space suites, it could still support dust storms e.g. like Mars. The final one, again based on a solar system perspective was the relative size of cosmic bodies, they are very small! You have created a quite different space I believe. Maybe though, since they are all so close (from my interpretation now), gravity may not let this configuration be sustained for very long (however "long" might be )
Great to reuse 3D objects, and sure takes a lot of effort to create new complex ones, as I think Gordon et al here would agree Great work, I enjoy it
Trevor |
Posted on 27/06/11 4:41:27 PM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Hello Trevor ... It is interesting how you interpreted the image! I like your story too. Reminds me on the movie Armageddon with Bruce Willis .
Back to your points: - I think as long as the light source is visible, the sky could not be black, right? - As for the flare, even without any sand storms the flare would still render in the absence of breathable air (vacuum). don't you think? Images of sun taken from outer space are examples of visible flares. - Now the golden question: considering the size and distance of the planets in the image can we say anything about how long it will take before they collapse into each other? The answer is no!! Why?! Cause it all depends on the centripetal forces (which would balance the gravity), and those would depend on the speed of their rotation, and that can not be judged by an still image ...
Vue is a very interesting piece of SW. The great thing about it is that you can get all of the objects as separate PS layers (together with their alpha masks) in the final render, and do as much tweaking and post work as you like in Photoshop. I enjoy reading your thorough comments Trevor. So please keep commenting the images that I send every now and then. It is good to have the opinion of experienced artists like Steve, you and other members of the forum ... |
Posted on 27/06/11 4:41:30 PM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
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Posted on 27/06/11 6:44:00 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7042 Reply  |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Very interesting. I like the lens flare on the left, it ties the image together nicely. Just one sort of technical point: your spacemen have torches with visible beams. But since there would be no atmosphere on this planet, there would be nothing to refract the light. You'd never see the beam, just the area it illuminates! |
Posted on 27/06/11 7:28:26 PM |
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jsterj
* Posts: 19 Reply  |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Steve pulls out the "no atmosphere" card, ouch. Ahh what does he know, it's not like he wrote a book or anything. Just kidding. Very nice Daniel! I've always wanted to try my hand at space-based photoshoppin', but haven't done so yet. You've rekindled my interest again. |
Posted on 28/06/11 04:07:32 AM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Steve, Thanks for the comments. You are right about the light beam. To be honest with you I was not assuming that there was vacuum there. Not breathable molecules of some kind maybe ... |
Posted on 28/06/11 05:05:28 AM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Thanks Justin. As Steve pointed out a couple of months ago, you can find quite a few 3D models (as well as high resolution images) for your project on NASA's we site. |
Posted on 28/06/11 5:27:28 PM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
..sorry folks this a bit long.... Hello Daniel, Just a few more thoughts. Sorry a bit pedantic maybe. This is not a critique at all just something you started me thinking about again. Like Justin, I'm also inspired must try my own SF image soon.
Yes, but I think the issue maybe the relative intensity. When you see the pictures from the moon of the earth, you see no stars because as order of magnitudes relatively few photons arrive at sensor/retina.
Yes agree. I missed the lens flare aspect. For the torches though, re critique from Steve, I think you can have the beams as there you envisage an atmosphere, but maybe to add some dynamics, you could add some cloud to the dust with motion blur. I'm thinking of Alien I. That said, if the dust is so thick would you ever see the "sky"?
Yes this the golden question. I might be wrong . Yes if have two bodies with very little external interaction. When have 3 or more closely reacting bodies it becomes chaotic. You have 4!(?). I would envisage one or more would be ejected or coalesce. In 1 D its like the double pendulum. Newtonian mechanics cannot solve the problem, hence all the papers of the 3 body gravitational maths. The great mathematician Lagrange analysis gives an insight and leads to the problem. If the moon orbits the earth in one month and the earth around the sun, it would not take long to collapse. e.g. http://www.neiu.edu/~mgidea/perturbedsitnikov.pdf I am quite intrigued: the moon is moving away from the earth due to the tidies induced by the moon and the friction on the seas. It sort of gives a sling-shot to the moon, taking energy from the Earth's rotation and giving it to the moon speeding its orbit and hence distance from the earth (Newton)
You have me intrigued. I must try Vue. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and work too. Trevor |
Posted on 29/06/11 02:54:36 AM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Hi Trevor, if you decide to purchase a Vue licensee, let me know. There are MANY versions of the SW, and it is not easy (at least it was not for me) to find out which one was the "right" one! |
Posted on 30/06/11 6:41:29 PM |
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sutex
Specular Specialist Posts: 157 Reply  |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Will these dead bodies decompose in space like that??? |
Posted on 01/07/11 4:54:14 PM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Why don't we ask CSI's Gil Grissom?! isn't he a Taphonomy specialist?!
Seriously ... I don't know Tomasz! This was supposed to be an imaginary planet. It is up to our imagination to decide whether bacterial cells can multiply and do their job on those dead bodies or not! Another possibility is that aliens might have eaten their flesh! |
Posted on 02/07/11 8:28:25 PM |
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Nick Curtain
Model Master Posts: 1768 Reply  |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Great imagination Daniel and well composed and executed. Nick |
Posted on 02/07/11 10:57:45 PM |
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Jota120
Ingenious Inventor Posts: 2615 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Daniel, Sorry if I gave too many comments and my random physics causes problems. Agree with Nick. Great balance. My original point, your great art. Agree with your view on the body too. I thought the same as Sutex at one stage, but we don't know this world. It will be dessicated or ........ putrefy, and more, the radiation in space can certainly destroy /cook, just the bones left ....no organic stuff left.... |
Posted on 03/07/11 6:35:35 PM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Nick, thanks a lot. I am happy that you like it. |
Posted on 03/07/11 6:35:41 PM |
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Daniel
Poser Professor Posts: 192 Reply |
Re: Rescue Attempt
Trevor, it is just fun to discuss details like this, don't worry. As I said I am always more than happy to receive your feedback ... Scientific and artistic ...
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