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Posted on 16/04/25 11:53:30 AM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5551 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
'Just another tool' is of course quite correct and entirely legitimate, but it's a dangerously slippery slope. This is called the "Friday Challenge". As far as I am concerned, the whole point is to be challenged and to rise to it. I am deliberately tough on myself because I find the more of a challenge it is the more rewarding it is to try and meet. But that's just me. How much 'help' you accept is completely personal. We all draw the line in different places. Like you, I am absolutely delighted to have my washing machine clean my clothes. I am rather less enthusiastic about asking it to design them!  _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 16/04/25 12:23:59 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5551 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
I think the key word here is "judicious" Michael. Ben's image had richness and depth. To my eye, what you have done is give it the classic 'Sinclair look'. It is now post produced and flattened to the point that it looks like an illustration. That's your style Michael and you do it very well. But what is so fascinating here is how differently we treat our images. Now I can't presume to know Ben's intentions, but my guess is that your adaptation may not reflect them in any way. I would guess that he was aiming for as real as possible. That is predominantly his style and what indeed he has successfully achieved here. _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 16/04/25 12:40:30 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5551 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Lot's of interesting entries this week. My apologies to you all that my antipathy towards AI has dominated the discussions. My target has indirectly been Dennis. I have known Dennis and his work from years before HTCP. I can't remember but I think it may even be I who pointed him here. So now I want to redress the balance of my harsh comments here. Dennis has just posted some new 3D work here. Do please go look. Scroll down to the Zulu warrior. He is just breathtakingly good!! _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 16/04/25 9:55:20 PM |
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dwindt
Realism Realiser Posts: 871 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Thank you, David. You're to kind...and I have never forgotten the many patient years you critiqued and tutored me. Damn, must be over 3 decades ago at Graphics.com. I still use techniques you taught me that I recon you've most probably forgotten already...lol. Your beauty is that you call it as it is. A spade is a spade; and I have always appreciated that and still do. I thrive for it. It edges me on. Thank you. _________________ The grass is greener on the other side of the fence because there is more $hit there. |
Posted on 16/04/25 11:44:30 PM |
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Ben Boardman
Printing Pro Posts: 601 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
I think the key word here is "judicious" Michael. Ben's image had richness and depth. Thank you David. |
Posted on 17/04/25 00:23:22 AM |
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dwindt
Realism Realiser Posts: 871 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Judicious. The right word for this challenge, Ben!...lol. _________________ The grass is greener on the other side of the fence because there is more $hit there. |
Posted on 17/04/25 06:49:47 AM |
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Ben Boardman
Printing Pro Posts: 601 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
For the non Americans, the bench, left to right. Judge Paula Xinis ordered the Trump administration to facilitate the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident wrongly deported to El Salvador. Judge Juan Merchan Presiding over Trump's criminal trial related to alleged hush money payments, Judge Merchan became a target of Trump's criticisms. Judge Arthur Engoron Overseeing a civil fraud case against Trump, Judge Engoron faced criticism from Trump and his allies after shirtless photos of the judge surfaced in a newsletter. Chief Justice John Roberts has publicly rebuked Trump's attacks on the judiciary. In March 2025, Roberts rejected Trump's call to impeach Judge Boasberg, |
Posted on 17/04/25 06:56:17 AM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3006 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Dennis, on David's prompting i have taken some time to view your work. Many of your images are beautiful and I was well impressed although I know nothing about Daz. Excellent. |
Posted on 17/04/25 10:49:11 AM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3006 Reply |
Any similarity to any person, either living or dead, is purely coincidental
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Posted on 17/04/25 10:55:37 AM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3006 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Ben, flickr.com is putting it's prices up for very large files. Like mine. |
Posted on 17/04/25 12:57:39 PM |
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michael sinclair
Off-Topic Opportunist Posts: 1853 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Mariner this is one of the very best you have ever done! The work and detail is absolutely amazing, and...of course your lighting is impeccable! The triple Gold standard is yours!  |
Posted on 17/04/25 1:13:00 PM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3006 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Thanks Michael. I do my best to achieve perfection. |
Posted on 17/04/25 4:08:16 PM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3006 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Thanks David. Despite what I wrote earlier I am intrigued by your info and have looked into it. The two ML modules you mentioned earlier were somehow already installed on my PC. They are using 362 Mb of storage space and how much memory they use is just a guess. There is an option to uninstall them but I don't think I will - the tool has, for now, got me hooked. |
Posted on 17/04/25 4:58:00 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5551 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Thanks Ben. I have to reluctantly admit to total ignorance. _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 17/04/25 5:01:45 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5551 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
 _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 17/04/25 5:22:05 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5551 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Mariner - Lovely stuff. You've put a lot of work into this. I understand your love of working large images. It makes everything so much easier to manipulate and work. But don't you find it makes a rod for your back in picture searches? Finding good hi res source material can be very hard and, occasionally, non existent. Re your remarks about ML I am not surprised you are hooked on the new selection tool. Selection is one of things AI has completely transformed and I am more than happy to let it help me with the boring grunt work. _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 17/04/25 5:25:49 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5551 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
RUMOUR HAS IT THAT THE RECENTLY ABANDONED TOWN HALL IS TO BECOME PART OF A HOTEL ACQUISITION. David doing what he enjoys most .........  _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 17/04/25 7:17:36 PM |
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michael sinclair
Off-Topic Opportunist Posts: 1853 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
Nice work David.
I think it's for the best for world peace. 
 |
Posted on 18/04/25 07:54:22 AM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3006 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
David I work large images mainly because I have AMD and work with my nose 20 cm or less from the screen. Finding good source material takes a lot of my time as I usually search for imagees 4 Mb or larger. If I can't find what I want I go down to 2 Mb or larger then enlarge what i find to 4000 x 3000 px and work on it from there. Regarding ML. For many years I have worked with the pen tool because of its cleaness with cutouts. In recent years I noticed a sense of relief when the cutout was done, so I was mentally open to try out something qucker than the pen or better than the magic wand. |
Posted on 18/04/25 08:36:39 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 6990 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1049: Justice is served
First to go to court this week was lwc, obligingly getting it ready for the rest of us. That’s actually carpet they’re mopping, but I won’t quibble. I did enjoy the In your face entry, with its swivelling eyes, and of course the laughing barrister. Excellent. A very fine kangaroo court – where did you find those images of kangaroos from behind? All AI? Beautifully done. I like the Alice in Wonderland entry, even though I’ve always found Tim Burton’s movies to be grotesque for no reason. What? No steam from the teacup? I had to smile at the Minions entry, for its silliness but also for its exuberance and sheer joyfulness. Keep them coming! I’m impressed by how you’ve fit the cast of Witness for the Prosecution into this courtroom, particularly the way Tyrone Power is gripping the edge of the witness box. And a very good call to have Marlene turned away from him. A set of AI-generated jurors from dwindt has sparked a serious debate, and it’s one that will run and run. However it was created, it’s an excellent image, which surely is validation in itself. But see below for my slightly more detailed rationale. Plenty going on in the second entry, the three pigs now making full sense of the two wolves. I see Justice with the feather, but what’s on the other side of the scales? I rarely wear a suit, but obviously DavidMac thinks a court appearance is the right time. A good choice of characters – I particularly like the stenographer – but why is the room so gloomy? I did really like the second entry, with its artfully placed sheets and splendid lighting. Superb. There’s much to like about Frank's entry, from the rear view of the barristers to the stenographer and the pleading burglar (and having seen him in his burgling outfit, I can see why David suggested wearing a suit to the trial). But best of all, for me, is the wires leading to the COURT IN SESSION sign. I had to check they weren’t there on the original image. Perfectly done. Serious politics from michael sinclair, using the courtroom as the setting for a major rant. And why not. A good assembly of figures, although I’m sure you could have located the statue of liberty from a lower angle. Is it just me, or is Lincoln’s left hand made of flesh and bone? I’m not sure about your take on Ben's entry; I know it makes everything clearer, but that’s at the expense of removing some of the intrigue. Those wood panels are now much too distracting. And while I may appreciate the sentiment, don’t assassinate Trump – if you do we get Vance, who is an altogether nastier piece of work. I don’t pretend to recognise all the participants in Ben Boardman’s entry, but it’s a powerful piece of work. The poses of Trump and Musk are excellent, and the chainsaw makes a great Exhibit A. The dog does seem rather out of place, unless there’s a legal precedent of which I’m unaware. Ah – thanks for the key to the characters! It’s Trump vs Zelenskyy from Ant Snell, although it’s not entirely clear which of them is on trial here. Strange how recognisable Trump is, even from the back. Why have you distorted Judge Judy so much? She definitely looks rather sheared. Good luck with the jury service, and take a laptop with you – there’s a lot of waiting around. Plenty of antipodean animals in tooquilos's kangaroo court. I like the bowing emu, the wig on the judge, and the replaced coat of arms. And a very fine soundtrack, too. Cute. A busy courtroom from Mariner, with a rebuilt witness box complete with rather tasty brass railings. I like the poses and the amount of eye contact here – you really do get the impression the characters are engaging with each other (other than the jury, who seem to be gazing at the far wall). Is that Freddie Mercury with an iPad? ____ So… to the AI issue. I think Dennis’s entry is an entirely valid use of AI. The angles, the poses, the expressions, above all the choice of characters – all these are the product of Dennis’s creative imagination. Would it have been more acceptable if he’d found these same characters through Google? Then they’d have been the product of someone else’s imagination. If the entire image had been AI generated then yes, that would be a different issue. But these are elements chosen and indeed dreamed up by Dennis, not merely stumbled upon online, and then incorporated into a proper Photoshop scene. Photographers complained about the introduction of Photoshop, and portrait painters complained about the introduction of photography, and monks in the scriptorium complained about the introduction of the printing press. All progress will upset people who are used to the old way of doing things. But David and others, before you decry Dennis’s work, take this simple test. Use any of the AI tools out there – from the one built into Photoshop, to ChatGPT or Midjourney or whatever – and see if you can get it to come up with these images. Writing prompts to get AI to make the images you want is a definite skill in itself, and one that is far from easy to master. Just as you might take time to learn the Pen Tool, so Dennis has taken the trouble to work out how to use AI tools. It really isn’t that easy. And you have to admit, it’s a very effective image. |
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