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Posted on 02/01/26 07:54:38 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7115 Reply  |
Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
The Business Design Centre is an exhibition venue in Islington, London. At the top of the stairs is this curious pair of 'nooks', as they appear to be called, which seem to be designed for intimate chats. I was intrigued by the perspectival difference between the two, determined by the viewing angle. My personal Challenge for DavidMac (and anyone else interested in the technical side of things) is to extend the nook train by one 'carriage' in each direction. If that sounds too daunting, then just give them some occupants. And, since they're on wheels, they should be easy to move to a different location. High res is here.  |
Posted on 02/01/26 09:04:14 AM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3226 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Steve, do you mean we should pretend there would be four nooks visible if the photographer just stepped back a few paces? |
Posted on 02/01/26 10:24:03 AM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3226 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
[Deleted] Rubbish. |
Posted on 02/01/26 1:40:46 PM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7115 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Exactly. It will be tricky. |
Posted on 02/01/26 3:35:07 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5979 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Hi Steve. Sorry to ask this but is this exactly as taken? I am completely unable to get a valid perspective analysis. This usually indicates that some form of lens correction (usually parallels) has been applied in post. If this is the case can you post the uncorrected original please? _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 02/01/26 3:52:05 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5979 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Hi again. I have it working now. Not sure what went amiss but it's fine. 'Pologies for bother. _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 02/01/26 6:35:40 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5979 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
It occurs to me that if we are to take this challenge in the rather literal technical form Steve is proposing the real difficulty is not the cabins so much as extending the background behind them. I can see that giving even AI a headache. Hmmmm ......... _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 03/01/26 07:04:19 AM |
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Nick Curtain
Model Master Posts: 1783 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
I recall 'The Sweet' singing- Does anyone know the way? Did we hear someone say? We just haven't got a clue what to do! |
Posted on 03/01/26 09:56:44 AM |
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Steve Caplin
Administrator Posts: 7115 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
You could all just ignore my instructions! |
Posted on 03/01/26 11:49:32 AM |
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Nick Curtain
Model Master Posts: 1783 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
We'd be the last people to do that Steve!! I had a go at this, but not much time this week, so a bit quick and dirty and not entirely happy. That said, this is a tricky one to say the least. With the right hand pod in the original image, we're looking almost head on to the right hand side, so merely copying it and transforming will not work. While I have tried to rebuild the seat and back wall, I think we would be seeing some of the outside left hand wall?? I think the table needs attention too, but as said not much time. I'll be interested to see what others think. Doing a Pano in Lightroom is so much easier! 
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Posted on 03/01/26 1:03:04 PM |
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lwc
Hole in One Posts: 3431 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
And then there were four... 
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Posted on 03/01/26 1:48:43 PM |
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GKB
Magical Montagist Posts: 4103 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
For those of you not familiar with Roger De Courcey, he is a British ventriloquist and artists' agent, best known for performing with Nookie Bear.  _________________  |
Posted on 04/01/26 11:32:11 AM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5979 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
I am amazed at how good results are so far. This is much, much harder than it looks at first sight. Certainly much harder than I (or even Steve maybe) ever expected. So this is not an entry it's a "story so far". I'm afraid it's going be wordy. But hopefully not uninteresting. THE TECHNICAL STUFF Steve has asked that we add a cabin each side. He said "I was intrigued by the perspectival difference between the two, determined by the viewing angle. My personal Challenge for DavidMac (and anyone else interested in the technical side of things) is to extend the nook train by one 'carriage' in each direction." How you approach this depends on how you interpret Steve's request. My initial response was to interpret this literally as meaning leave the picture exactly as it is but add an extra cabin each end. If you try to imagine that in physical terms it implies stay exactly where you are with your camera but open up the field of view. Steve's photo is already quite wide angle and is already beginning to present some wide angle distortions. To open it up so much further implies an incredibly wide angle lens and is almost certain to produce severe distortions. Well I have a 3D software that is able to create a virtual camera from analysis of vanishing points in a 2D photo. It's used by architects to embed 3D models of their designs into 2D photographs of the immediate environment where they will be built. So I analysed Steve's photo, created a virtual camera in exactly the same position as his, did a quick and dirty outline model of the cabin, placed two them in exactly the same position as Steve's and added some extra cabins. The result is technically and optically correct but represents a situation that would be very foolhardy and silly to attempt in real life. As I expected, I had created such a wide angle view that ridiculous wide angle distortions are appearing. Here it is: 
I have done exactly as Steve asked but the result is just plain silly! It looks like those photos that estate agents so love! Now Mariner asked "Steve, do you mean we should pretend there would be four nooks visible if the photographer just stepped back a few paces?". He has put his finger on the best solution to getting four cabins in the picture without ridiculous distortions - step back. This implies however that the original perspective on the two central cabins will change and they cannot be used as they are. Effectively, nothing much will be left of Steve's original photo. So be it ..... I think he'll have to live with that. Here is my preliminary construction: 
To keep my "step back" within reasonable realistic confines I have still had to keep a quite wide angle view and distortions are still present in the two outer cabins. All that remains now is to cut up the existing two photographic cabins into segments and to distort, resize and re-position them like a jigsaw to overlay the imported line drawings. It's actually quite an intimidating prospect! The rest of you have gone for instinct and eye judgement to arrive at results which are not "correct" but, for the most part, look surprisingly acceptable. On close examination I can see all sorts of anomalies and inconsistencies (multiple vanishing points particularly) in all of them, but I am being very picky. As I said at the start I am amazed at how well, an extremely difficult challenge is being handled. In my case, I have, of course, completely over thought this and in so doing created a massive rod for my back. Seems I have left myself no option but some serious bullet biting ........ _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 04/01/26 1:34:49 PM |
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Nick Curtain
Model Master Posts: 1783 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Just popped in for a quick look and quite pleased to see that I'm not alone in facing the challenge with this one. Your comments are far from uninteresting David and in fact you have endorsed my initial view that rebiulding the cabins is the only logical way forward. Because of the camera angle and triangulation, the nooks will become proportionately larger as they near the camera. Assuming that the steel girder above them is parallel to the floor, the apex of the foof on each should be consistant and perhaps even look closer to the steel as you move from left to right (see original pic). Just thought you may wish to have a look at this aspect before embarking on your mammoth cutting out session. Good luck!! Nick |
Posted on 04/01/26 2:27:32 PM |
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Ant Snell
Specular Specialist Posts: 603 Reply  |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Bit of a cop out, but fun to do. Happy New Year to you all!  |
Posted on 04/01/26 5:42:00 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5979 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
But what a fun cop out! If you are into early German cinema I would describe this as Caligari like. _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 05/01/26 12:30:37 PM |
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lwc
Hole in One Posts: 3431 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Ultra-wide lens distortion and the high-pressure salesman. 
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Posted on 05/01/26 4:51:58 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5979 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Loyd! _________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 05/01/26 5:20:26 PM |
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DavidMac
Director of Photoshop Posts: 5979 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT MR CAPLIN!! Being the literal minded soul I can be on occasions, this is just the bog standard bare bones perspective challenge. Just what was asked for. Nothing more. I haven't the energy left to add people. I haven't done exactly what you asked using your photo because, as I have already shown in an earlier post, the results get too distorted to be acceptable. This a best effort compromise. To pay lip service it does use the column and beam and the cabin placements directly from your picture and I have borrowed all the cabin textures and details from it. It was fascinating to try and far, far harder than I ever anticipated. To be honest I am quite pleased with the result and rather chuffed that I could pull it off. But ................ please ........... don't do this to us too often! 
_________________ The subtlety and conviction of any Photoshop effect is invariably inversely proportional to the number of knobs on it ....... |
Posted on 06/01/26 06:43:25 AM |
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Mariner
Renaissance Mariner Posts: 3226 Reply |
Re: Challenge 1086: A bit of nookie
Really good work Davkd. Technically excellent. Nice flloor, ugly background. I also found this one difficult. I tried the multiple vanishing points technique and abandoned it. So I used the good old-fashioned 'trial and error' technique until it looked about right. It was a boring image until I put in a glorious background and a better floor. I shall publish on Thursday after I have done some polishing. |
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